To summarize: The only 2.5 vehicle that received a "TRUE" 568 was the 1990 minivan equipped only with a 180ft lb. cal. The rest...
The following may serve as a good quick reference sheet.
Take
Care.
5DIGITS
AA =
SPIRIT,ACCLAIM
AG =
DAYTONA
AJ =
LEBARON
AP =
SHADOW
AS =
MINIVAN
***********************************************************************
1990
TRANS MODEL= A-523
***********************************************************************
ENGINE
PROD PN SERVICE PN
FD RATIO BODY
2.2
EFI 4531884
4446238 3.50
AP
(122ft
lbs)
2.5 EFI
4531884 4446238
3.50
AA,AG,AP
(135ft
lbs)
2.5 EFI
4531882 4446239
3.85
AS
(135ft
lbs)
2.5 TURBO-I
4531884
4446238 3.50
AA,AG,AP
(180ft
lbs)
***********************************************************************
1990
TRANS MODEL= A-543
***********************************************************************
ENGINE
PROD PN SERVICE PN
FD RATIO BODY
3.0
EFI
4531880 4505317
3.50
AG,AJ
(170ft
lbs)
***********************************************************************
1990
TRANS MODEL= A-568
***********************************************************************
ENGINE
PROD PN SERVICE PN
FD RATIO BODY
2.2
TURBO-IV 4531883
4446237
3.85
AG,AJ,AP
(210ft
lbs)
2.5
TURBO-I 4531883
4446237
3.85
AS
(180ft
lbs)
***********************************************************************
1991
TRANS MODEL= A-523
***********************************************************************
ENGINE
PROD PN SERVICE PN
FD RATIO BODY
2.2
EFI
4641650 4531921
3.85
AP
(122ft
lbs)
2.5
EFI
4641650 4531921
3.85
AG,AS
(135ft
lbs)
2.5
EFI
4641875 4670025
3.50
AA
(135ft
lbs)
2.5
TURBO-I 4641651
4531923
3.50
AA,AP
(180ft
lbs)
***********************************************************************
1991
TRANS MODEL= A-543
***********************************************************************
ENGINE
PROD PN SERVICE PN
FD RATIO BODY
3.0
EFI 4641655
4531919
3.50
AG,AJ
(170ft
lbs)
***********************************************************************
1991
TRANS MODEL= A-568
***********************************************************************
ENGINE
PROD PN SERVICE PN
FD RATIO BODY
2.2
TURBO-I 4641652
4531922
3.85
AG,AJ
(210ft
lbs)
2.5
TURBO-III 4641877
4531929 3.85
AA
(217ft
lbs)
***********************************************************************
1992
TRANS MODEL= A-523
***********************************************************************
ENGINE
PROD PN SERVICE PN
FD RATIO BODY
2.2
EFI
4531914 4641275
3.77
AP
(122ft
lbs)
2.5
EFI
4531914 4641275
3.77
AA,AG,AP
(135ft
lbs)
2.5
EFI
4531914 4641275
3.77
AA,AP
(135ft
lbs)
2.5
TURBO-I 4670988
4670002 3.77
AS
(180ft
lbs)
***********************************************************************
1992
TRANS MODEL= A-543
***********************************************************************
ENGINE
PROD PN SERVICE PN
FD RATIO BODY
3.0
EFI 4531912
4641276
3.77
AG,AJ
(170ft
lbs)
***********************************************************************
1992
TRANS MODEL= A-568
***********************************************************************
ENGINE
PROD PN SERVICE PN
FD RATIO BODY
2.2
TURBO-I 4531915
4641277 3.85
AG,AJ
(210ft
lbs)
2.5
TURBO-III 4543755
4641278 3.85
AA,AG
(217ft
lbs)
***************************
GEAR RATIOS
***************************
1991
A-523/543
A-568
1st:
3.29 1st: 3.00
2nd:
2.08 2nd: 1.89
3rd:
1.45 3rd: 1.28
4th:
1.04 4th: 0.94
5th:
0.72 5th: 0.71
1992
A-523/543
A-568
1st:
3.31 1st: 3.31
2nd:
2.06 2nd: 1.89
3rd:
1.36 3rd: 1.28
4th:
0.97 4th: 0.94
5th:
0.71 5th: 0.71
VNT1990 wrote: The transmission part number could also be different because of the hole in the case for the crank sensor that is only found on the T3 cars.
CORRECT!
"The T-I, although labeled a 568, did not receive the same hardware content that the T-III did.."
The 4-pinion was one of several omissions/changes, that the T-I trans received.
I believe I may be mis-understood. Early in this conversation I had mentioned that there were some "running" changes made to these transmissions. This means through out the model year, many revisions, additions, and omissions were performed. As those changes are completed, some transmissions will have the parts - Some won't. This is basically a "luck of the draw" scenario. Confirmation from the people directly involved with design/build, of those transmissions, indicated that those parts were indeed omitted. This does not mean that it is impossible to have a trans that has those components. Remember... "Running change", as stated previously. Supporting this was the information necessary to determine whether a transmission was equipped with the "topic" components. The documentation, as provided from Chrysler, indicates the final end result part numbers and applications. This documentation does not take into account the "bastard" packages that were made along the way (i.e. 4-pinion, 4P carrier with two gears, 2P carriers, 4P carriers with/without the extra holes machined, etc...) All of these combinations were obtainable. This may be a case where something said/repeated is not what wants to be heard. Especially if you just happen to own one of those vehicles. No one likes to feel slighted. A product is paid for and you expect to get what IS paid for!! Technical factual data is not anything personal or vindictive.
Noise in manual transmissions.
A loose input shaft can cause this type of noise. A "loose" input shaft can be held off-center, when the clutch is released and it rotates the shaft. This improper vibrating motion is what produces the noise and improper bearing wear. Although the specified torque is set at .001 to .010 inch play, better results may be found setting it to zero or slightly under. The slight increase in pre-load can eliminate nearly all of this noise and will also aid with shaft deceleration, during shifts. This can result in quicker shift capabilities, without synchro clash.
Yes. This can produce a slight increase in drag, at the transmission. Will this loss be measurable in the performance? Unlikely. Especially if a quicker shift can be achieved!
Okay, Ive got a couple of questions for you Turbo Dodge gurus. I just did a transaxle/clutch job on my 86 S/C. It seems to have what sounds like substantial release bearing noise. It is very strange because it does not make the noise at typical times. You can hear it when moving along in any gear, with the clutch pedal in or out. It sounds almost as if the bearing is not being retracted off of the pressure plate all the way. The only time you hear it though is when you take your foot off the gas pedal and coast. The noise goes away when you are standing still.
This can typically be attributed
to back-lash noise caused from the ring gear, carrier bearings set with
an extremely low pre-load, or both. Typically, this will not produce a
problem unless there has been damage done to the front intermediate (output)
shaft bearing, the intermediate/output shaft bearing surface, back-side
tooth fatigue on the ring or intermediate gears, and/or improper carrier
bearing wear. Unfortunately, a low carrier pre-load can produce the same
symptoms (noise) of the above listed items. The loose carrier bearings
simply cause the teeth to mate differently when loaded VS un-loaded and
may exist without failure. An inspection may be necessary to gain "peace-of-mind".
CONCEPT#1
Parts needed:
1.) (1)-520/523/555/568 rear
"bobble shock" bracket
2.) (1)-Bobble STRUT (Dog-bone)
2.) (1)-round solid spacer
(1"dia.x1"length) w/ a 7/16" hole through the center
3.) (1)-round solid spacer
(1"dia.x3/8"length) w/ a 7/16" hole through the center
4.) (1)-3.5"-4" bolt (Another
front mount bolt works great)
Alternative Parts..
If the solid spacers cannot
be obtained, stack up washers to duplicate.
Directions:
1.) Remove the "bobble shock"
(Throw hard!!)
2.) Install the "Bobble strut", by the lower bolts only.
3.) Angle the strut, such that the strut points to the center of the old shock upper mounting hole. This will indicate where the new holes should be drilled (ON THE SIDES) of the bracket.
4.) No need to be exact, mark an approx. location for the holes. At this time you may notice where the spacers are going to go. The "dog-bone" is much narrower than the bracket. You may also see the bias to one side, justifying the two different sizes.
5.) Remove the bracket, drill the holes (where you marked), and reinstall.
6.) Simply assembly from this point on... You could also elongate the drilled holes, top to bottom. This will provide additional adjustment capability.
NOTE: If the washer route is chosen, stack them up ahead of time. When the proper stack-up dimension is obtained, tape them together. (Like a coin roll) This makes it a lot easier to work with!!!!
CONCEPT#2
This will provide a firmer
mount than the previous concept. Although this will also generate more
"in vehicle" noise.
Parts needed:
1.) (1)-520/523/555/568 rear
"bobble shock" bracket
2.) (1)-Bobble STRUT (Dog-bone)
3.) (2)-Upper "shock" washers
4.) (2)-Upper "shock" rubber
isolators
5.) (1)-4-5" piece of 1/2"
threaded rod
6.) (4)-nuts (same as rod
thread)
1.) Cut one end off of the "dog-bone" mount
2.) Weld approx. 4-5" of 1/2" threaded rod onto the mount.
3.) Thread two nuts onto the rod, place on one of the washers, and then one of the rubber isolators.
NOTE: The washer hole may require drilling. This depends on the choice of rod diameter.
4.) Install the mount and adjust one nut up to mate the rubber isolator with the transmission bracket.
5.) While holding that nut, tighten the lower nut against it. This will hold the adjustment.
6.) Install the upper isolator, washer, nuts, and adjust as required.
Both of these concepts are good replacements/improvements over the shock design and have been proven durable/reliable.
I recently purchased a 568 tranny that came out of a 90 VNT Daytona. Does this tranny have the larger diameter input shaft? I am going to be using a T-III pressure plate, but need to know if I need a T-II or T-III clutch disk.
This trans (if original) should have the smaller input shaft. A great combination is the T-III pressure plate with the VNT disk. The T-III had the highest clamping load while the VNT disk featured a six spring damper hub.
Why six springs? The dampening is less ([power on - power off] bobble) and this results in a higher torque capacity and a more positive feel. Friction material remained the same (T-III vs T-IV)
FYI:
The different shafts were
a running change. The problem was not structural/durability. The small
shaft suffered from disk binding. The hub of the disk would hang-up on
the input shaft and contribute to clutch chatter (the vibrating sensation
when launching lightly).
The larger shaft allowed for a steeper pitch spline. This is where (not a cure) an improvement was found.
Subject: SD> 525 Trans Girdle/slipping clutch (transmission upgrades)
Your best bet is to install either the 555 or 568 transmissions, if strength is a concern. The 555 used true Getrag gear-sets and were the strongest. The 568 used "mimicked" gears OR gears that were manufactured by Chrysler, to the same specifications as the Getrag gears.
The 525 has several weaknesses
besides the case. The girdle does help support the differential housing
but should not be considered a cure-all. The smaller ring gear, pinion
mates, and side gears will contribute to premature failure, when used in
a high power application. Some of the crossed drilled oil holes, on the
525, have been known to fracture. This results in the output shaft breaking
into two pieces. When this happens, 1st and 2nd will be the limp-in
gears. 3rd, 4th, and 5th end up beyond
the break point and will only
make noise.
The 525 gears were much smaller than the 520 components. The design was the same BUT the 520 components were much stronger/larger.
Transmission families (component
commonality):
1.) 460, 465, and 525
2.) 520 and 555
3.) 523, 568, and 598
On automatic transmissions....
I'm basically wanting to know if a tranny from a 92 Shadow or something would be as strong as his old one. I've heard that some trannies used 4 clutch bands and some used 3. I've heard that anything after 1990 had 4, and then I've heard it mattered which engine was in the car.
There were differences with the transmissions. An attempt should be made to obtain a '92 TURBO transmission. This transmission will have the extra clutch disk (4 but can be machined for a fifth) and it will also have the 5-pinion planetary versus 4. These were part of the minor changes made to insure turbo application driveline durability.
Also, I know there is a difference in the computers from 1991 to 1992 for the Daytona 2.5 T1 autos. What are the differences?
1.) The
'92 is a "flash-able" controller. This eliminates the need to physically
remove a chip, to re-calibrate.
2.)
The auto-shutdown/fuel pump circuit is slightly different. This MAY require
a wire to be added/jumpered.
My guess is that the main difference is maybe the 92 has an output for that electronic torque converter?
They
both have this capability. The calibration needs to be configured properly,
to activate the circuit. The
31TH/413 with L.U. were offered in 1991 and 1992. If I recall, the volume
numbers were low, for both model years. This can make them difficult to
find.